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	<title>Comments on: Facebook thinks my friends want to know when I buy hemorrhoid cream &#8211; the culmination of a bad month for privacy, and my views on the solution</title>
	<atom:link href="http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/</link>
	<description>Investments in and Assistance to Emerging Companies</description>
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		<title>By: Nowheet Owl</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-1246</link>
		<dc:creator>Nowheet Owl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-1246</guid>
		<description>well, online privacy is difficult to get now. unless you anonymouze everything and make sure that you don&#039;t enter your private information online at all. but facebook&#039;s issue is new to me, i never expect them to be that careless with our information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, online privacy is difficult to get now. unless you anonymouze everything and make sure that you don&#8217;t enter your private information online at all. but facebook&#8217;s issue is new to me, i never expect them to be that careless with our information.</p>
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		<title>By: Facebook Beacon supercharges word of mouth &#171; reDesign</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-728</link>
		<dc:creator>Facebook Beacon supercharges word of mouth &#171; reDesign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 13:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-728</guid>
		<description>[...] option to publish the information on your Facebook feed. This raises  privacy issues. GigaOm and John McKinley offer sharp [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] option to publish the information on your Facebook feed. This raises  privacy issues. GigaOm and John McKinley offer sharp [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John McKinley</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator>John McKinley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-722</guid>
		<description>Rocky-

I think G-rated sharing on media consumption stuff (songs I listened to, movies I watched) is the right kind of data I might share (I do that today),  Going beyond the media category is not something that I see people doing broadly.  If my buying habits define me to my friends, I need new friends!  I certainly will tell folk about new products I have a passion about, but that&#039;s an infrequent event, imho.

Your killer question is what Facebook will do with Beacon-obtained data, even if you opt out of surfacing it in your feed.  I will look into it, but if you get an answer first, I&#039;d love to know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rocky-</p>
<p>I think G-rated sharing on media consumption stuff (songs I listened to, movies I watched) is the right kind of data I might share (I do that today),  Going beyond the media category is not something that I see people doing broadly.  If my buying habits define me to my friends, I need new friends!  I certainly will tell folk about new products I have a passion about, but that&#8217;s an infrequent event, imho.</p>
<p>Your killer question is what Facebook will do with Beacon-obtained data, even if you opt out of surfacing it in your feed.  I will look into it, but if you get an answer first, I&#8217;d love to know!</p>
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		<title>By: Rocky Agrawal</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-720</link>
		<dc:creator>Rocky Agrawal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-720</guid>
		<description>John,

As one of the people responsible for helping to clean up the mess from last year&#039;s AOL Search data release, I&#039;m very sympathetic to privacy issues. 

But there is some great consumer value that can come out of sharing data on social networks. People have been doing this on Facebook and Myspace, even before Beacon, using apps like Virtual Bookshelf and Flixster.

I wrote a blog post (pre-announcement) on marketing on social networks:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.agrawals.org/2007/11/05/marketing-on-social-networks/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://blog.agrawals.org/2007/11/05/marketing-on-social-networks/&lt;/a&gt;

If my friends know that I have an iPod Touch or a Magellan GPS or that I like Keen shoes, they&#039;ve got a reference point when they&#039;re making purchase decisions. 

The big question I haven&#039;t seen addressed is what Facebook does with the Becaon data if I don&#039;t choose to publish it. There are brands that I would happily associate myself with and others that provide utility (Tide) or are embarrassing (Preparation H). If I buy Preparation H and tell Facebook I don&#039;t want to publish it, do they still keep track of the fact that I&#039;ve bought it?

With Facebook Beacon, I see the third-party sites being more concerned than users. If I&#039;m Amazon or Netflix, one of my competitive advantages is the database of purchasing habits that I have. Do I really want to give that away?

BTW, one Facebook privacy issue you didn&#039;t mention was the reports of Facebook employees casually snooping on user information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>As one of the people responsible for helping to clean up the mess from last year&#8217;s AOL Search data release, I&#8217;m very sympathetic to privacy issues. </p>
<p>But there is some great consumer value that can come out of sharing data on social networks. People have been doing this on Facebook and Myspace, even before Beacon, using apps like Virtual Bookshelf and Flixster.</p>
<p>I wrote a blog post (pre-announcement) on marketing on social networks:<br />
<a href="http://blog.agrawals.org/2007/11/05/marketing-on-social-networks/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.agrawals.org/2007/11/05/marketing-on-social-networks/</a></p>
<p>If my friends know that I have an iPod Touch or a Magellan GPS or that I like Keen shoes, they&#8217;ve got a reference point when they&#8217;re making purchase decisions. </p>
<p>The big question I haven&#8217;t seen addressed is what Facebook does with the Becaon data if I don&#8217;t choose to publish it. There are brands that I would happily associate myself with and others that provide utility (Tide) or are embarrassing (Preparation H). If I buy Preparation H and tell Facebook I don&#8217;t want to publish it, do they still keep track of the fact that I&#8217;ve bought it?</p>
<p>With Facebook Beacon, I see the third-party sites being more concerned than users. If I&#8217;m Amazon or Netflix, one of my competitive advantages is the database of purchasing habits that I have. Do I really want to give that away?</p>
<p>BTW, one Facebook privacy issue you didn&#8217;t mention was the reports of Facebook employees casually snooping on user information.</p>
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		<title>By: John McKinley</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-718</link>
		<dc:creator>John McKinley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 11:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-718</guid>
		<description>Jules-

First, glad to know you are still on the case for AOL - they need you!  Thanks for the post, and the reminder about the initial p3p efforts from a few years ago.  My views are simple - think about the energy put into the site-by-site p3p spec - now look at today:  I would be hard-pressed to believe privacybird, which was a nice idea we discussed incorporating into AOL 9.0, ever got to more that 1mm users at its peak - hence my view that add-ons won&#039;t get us there.

I would also propose that a Tacoda-enabled AOL is a way different world than before, and that was the reason for the need for the recent press push.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jules-</p>
<p>First, glad to know you are still on the case for AOL &#8211; they need you!  Thanks for the post, and the reminder about the initial p3p efforts from a few years ago.  My views are simple &#8211; think about the energy put into the site-by-site p3p spec &#8211; now look at today:  I would be hard-pressed to believe privacybird, which was a nice idea we discussed incorporating into AOL 9.0, ever got to more that 1mm users at its peak &#8211; hence my view that add-ons won&#8217;t get us there.</p>
<p>I would also propose that a Tacoda-enabled AOL is a way different world than before, and that was the reason for the need for the recent press push.</p>
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		<title>By: jules polonetsky</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator>jules polonetsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-717</guid>
		<description>Hi John, interesting post.  Note that AOL isn&#039;t creating any new opt-out opportunity - the ability to opt-out using an opt-out cookie has been available at the AOL privacy policy for many years.  But, as you imply, users don&#039;t know about the opt-out and that is why we have launched a campaign to publicize it.
Re the browser option - the P3P implementations in the browsers seek to give users some measure of the choice and currently block by default many 3rd party cookies if they do not meet a privacy standard - but this is limited to cookies.  The P3P specification, which I helped work on years ago (see www.w3.org/P3P/) does allow a site to provide a machine readable description of data practices that can be used (the leading browsers do not however use it, see http://www.privacybird.org/ for a plug in that can read a sites P3P policy and evaluate it).  But the complexity of this quite imperfect spec illustrates how difficult it is to communicate the myriad issues involved with data use in a way a user can quickly evaluate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John, interesting post.  Note that AOL isn&#8217;t creating any new opt-out opportunity &#8211; the ability to opt-out using an opt-out cookie has been available at the AOL privacy policy for many years.  But, as you imply, users don&#8217;t know about the opt-out and that is why we have launched a campaign to publicize it.<br />
Re the browser option &#8211; the P3P implementations in the browsers seek to give users some measure of the choice and currently block by default many 3rd party cookies if they do not meet a privacy standard &#8211; but this is limited to cookies.  The P3P specification, which I helped work on years ago (see <a href="http://www.w3.org/P3P/" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/P3P/</a>) does allow a site to provide a machine readable description of data practices that can be used (the leading browsers do not however use it, see <a href="http://www.privacybird.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.privacybird.org/</a> for a plug in that can read a sites P3P policy and evaluate it).  But the complexity of this quite imperfect spec illustrates how difficult it is to communicate the myriad issues involved with data use in a way a user can quickly evaluate.</p>
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		<title>By: amit shafrir</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-714</link>
		<dc:creator>amit shafrir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-714</guid>
		<description>cool. thanks. - checked it out. none of them do what we are working on :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cool. thanks. &#8211; checked it out. none of them do what we are working on <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: John McKinley</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-713</link>
		<dc:creator>John McKinley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-713</guid>
		<description>Amit-

Here is a good link to a list of 50 Firefox add-ons in the security and privacy space: http://mashable.com/2007/07/25/firefox-security/

IMHO, no player is even close to the mark, in terms of a policy based solution here.  The first steps on host-based white/black listing is at least starting to show up in IE7, Symantec&#039;s toolbar, and other add-ons, but this is all phishing focused.  Think there is an opportunity here, but it involved organic development, not acquisition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amit-</p>
<p>Here is a good link to a list of 50 Firefox add-ons in the security and privacy space: <a href="http://mashable.com/2007/07/25/firefox-security/" rel="nofollow">http://mashable.com/2007/07/25/firefox-security/</a></p>
<p>IMHO, no player is even close to the mark, in terms of a policy based solution here.  The first steps on host-based white/black listing is at least starting to show up in IE7, Symantec&#8217;s toolbar, and other add-ons, but this is all phishing focused.  Think there is an opportunity here, but it involved organic development, not acquisition.</p>
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		<title>By: John McKinley</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-712</link>
		<dc:creator>John McKinley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-712</guid>
		<description>Jeremy-

Would agree we as consumers have much less privacy than we are aware of.  I just think that the road back to fuller control starts with a single step.  I also think that someone&#039;s ability to track my web browsing habits without my full awareness (my view of the average consumer), and also tracking and potentially sharing my online purchasing habits with people I know is beyond acceptable as an opt-out default.  Even database marketers have restrictions on sharing transactional data.  Do I feel online privacy efforts persecute online businesses unfairly?  No way!  There is a middle ground here that can increase CPC/CPA performance and still respect the consumer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy-</p>
<p>Would agree we as consumers have much less privacy than we are aware of.  I just think that the road back to fuller control starts with a single step.  I also think that someone&#8217;s ability to track my web browsing habits without my full awareness (my view of the average consumer), and also tracking and potentially sharing my online purchasing habits with people I know is beyond acceptable as an opt-out default.  Even database marketers have restrictions on sharing transactional data.  Do I feel online privacy efforts persecute online businesses unfairly?  No way!  There is a middle ground here that can increase CPC/CPA performance and still respect the consumer.</p>
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		<title>By: Amit Shafrir</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-711</link>
		<dc:creator>Amit Shafrir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-711</guid>
		<description>great article. we were thinking of investing some $$$ in an Option 4 solution - what products have you seen out there ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great article. we were thinking of investing some $$$ in an Option 4 solution &#8211; what products have you seen out there ?</p>
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		<title>By: jeremyliew</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-710</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremyliew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-710</guid>
		<description>People are growing concerned about online privacy, but oddly enough, are holding it to a higher standard than offline privacy. 

If you go to Safeway and buy a weeks worth of groceries, you&#039;ll get coupons on the back of your receipt targeted to your purchases. (Including the hemorrhoid cream you reference in your title - or worse!. If you used your Safeway card to get discounts, they&#039;ll be targeted to things you bought previously. That is way more specific than any online cookie based system!

Or take what Acxiom has  - a very rich database of over 130m households in the US, including info like household income, number of kids, recent catalogue purchases, magazine subscriptions etc. They sell this to any direct marketer who wants to buy it. That is far more specific than what Myspace makes available as well.

I don&#039;t understand why people are more concerned about online ad targeting than offline</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People are growing concerned about online privacy, but oddly enough, are holding it to a higher standard than offline privacy. </p>
<p>If you go to Safeway and buy a weeks worth of groceries, you&#8217;ll get coupons on the back of your receipt targeted to your purchases. (Including the hemorrhoid cream you reference in your title &#8211; or worse!. If you used your Safeway card to get discounts, they&#8217;ll be targeted to things you bought previously. That is way more specific than any online cookie based system!</p>
<p>Or take what Acxiom has  &#8211; a very rich database of over 130m households in the US, including info like household income, number of kids, recent catalogue purchases, magazine subscriptions etc. They sell this to any direct marketer who wants to buy it. That is far more specific than what Myspace makes available as well.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand why people are more concerned about online ad targeting than offline</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon</title>
		<link>http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-709</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://greatfallsventures.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/facebook-thinks-my-friends-want-to-know-when-i-buy-hemorrhoid-cream-the-culmination-of-a-bad-month-for-privacy-and-my-views-on-the-solution/#comment-709</guid>
		<description>Great article! We shouldn&#039;t have to trade away our personal information and privacy to use tools and services on the Web. The browser as the control for the end-user is a concept worth exploring. Thanks for the link; I&#039;ll be back to read more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article! We shouldn&#8217;t have to trade away our personal information and privacy to use tools and services on the Web. The browser as the control for the end-user is a concept worth exploring. Thanks for the link; I&#8217;ll be back to read more!</p>
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